when we were out walking and he'd meet a young boy, the question he would ask him is what did you have for breakfast today. he wanted to make sure that there was prosperity for his people as well as freedom and that freedom would bring prosperity. he was a very practical politician. >> talk about your personal time with him. of course, it was years of your life. and you always said he made you walk a little taller. >> well, i had to have nelson mandela in my head, which is a wonderful thing for anybody. unfortunately he isn't quite there as prominently as he once was, but to think about things the way he did with moderation, with caution, with understanding. i mean, that's what made him a great leader is that he listened to people. he didn't -- the greatest civil war we would have seen in the 20th century. >> go back the last hundred years of public life, he doesn't compare to a roosevelt or fdr or woodrow wilson.